MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:
How do you end a war when one of the warring parties shows no interest in ending it? I'm talking about the war in Ukraine and about the Kremlin's consistent position that victory is inevitable, that it can keep throwing men and money at the fight, that Russia is in it for as long as it takes. Well, that position poses a challenge for the United States, which is trying to broker peace talks. So what's the next move? We'll put that question to Bridget Brink. She was the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine from 2022 until last year. She's now running for Congress as a Democrat in Michigan. Ambassador Brink, welcome.
BRIDGET BRINK: Thanks so much. Great to be here.
KELLY: Do you agree with that premise, that Russia is in no rush for this war to end?
BRINK: Yes, I absolutely agree with it. I think one thing is crystal clear. Trump failed to end the war on Day 1, and 2025 is the deadliest for civilians in Ukraine since 2022. I myself lived under Russia's missiles and drones for three years, and it was crystal clear to me that Putin is not interested in peace.
KELLY: So what should be the strategy? I mean, if you were at the table for these U.S.-brokered talks, what would the next move be?
BRINK: Well, first of all, I think history shows us we have to show leadership in the face of aggression. And appeasing Putin or appeasing any dictator doesn't work. It didn't work in 1938. It's not going to work today. I think what we need to do is to work with our allies and our partners to strengthen and support Ukraine while putting maximum pressure on Putin.
KELLY: And when you say maximum pressure, what leverage does the U.S. have?
BRINK: Well, No. 1, his weakness is his economy, and we can turn up the sanctions by going after the things that are helping to fuel his war - specifically, the energy sector - and by making sure the sanctions that are already in place are working properly. We can also seize the $200 billion in Russian sovereign assets that are in Europe, and we can use those to buy weapons to help Ukraine defend itself, supplemented by other things from other partners around the world.
KELLY: I guess I'm wondering how that would look different from what was tried under President Biden, in whose administration you served, who levied sanctions, as you just mentioned, worked with allies, sent Ukraine weapons. And yet here we are speaking on the four-year anniversary of this war, and Russia has not backed down.
BRINK: When Trump came into office, he turned off all of those levers of pressure. And the reason this war continues is that the pressure has decreased on Putin, and in fact, the pressure has been put instead on Ukraine. This war that Putin is waging is far bigger than just Ukraine. He wants to divide Europe. He wants to weaken the United States. What's at stake for us is incredibly big. It's our national security. It's our closest allies and partners. It's, of course, also the Ukrainian people. But we should do everything within our power to stop Putin from waging this war and from changing the borders of Europe by force.
KELLY: You spent three years as ambassador in Ukraine. I'm wondering if today there's a particular person, a particular place that's front of mind for you.
BRINK: Well, you know, I put a social media post out today, and it was very deliberately done to reflect a really terrible moment in Ukraine. Putin had sent a missile to a playground in Kryvyi Rih, and that cluster munition exploded over the playground. And the diplomatic corps was invited to come and pay respects to the children who died and to their family members. And the father of one of the young teenage boys who died spoke to all of the people who had come, all the diplomatic representatives.
He said, today I received a call on my iPhone that Russia had launched a missile and that it had hit a playground where my son had been playing. I immediately got my wife, and I drove in my Tesla to the playground, and I found my son there dead, wearing his Nike shoes. He said, America, it's a great country. We're not asking you to give us something for nothing. We're asking you to loan us your weapons. Help us save our children and you will also save yourself. We need this. And that day was a day where I knew I had to leave.
KELLY: What did you say to that father?
BRINK: I could only offer him my sincerest personal condolences for his incalculable loss. We can stop this. And if we think that it will stop by just giving Putin what he wants, history shows that that is absolutely wrong.
KELLY: Bridget Brink, former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine. Ambassador, thanks for joining us to mark this fourth anniversary.
BRINK: Thanks so much, Mary Louise. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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