MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
We spoke with Dr. Abdul El-Sayed - and he is a medical doctor - shortly before the Associated Press called the Democratic primary for him in Michigan's Senate race this morning. I asked him if he expected his race against Congresswoman Haley Stevens would be as close as it was.
ABDUL EL-SAYED: Well, turns out people vote. Polls don't. And, you know, we are - we're expecting a victory. We feel very confident in the outcome. And what it shows is that if you can build a movement, brick by brick on a conversation about who we are and who we want to be, that you can take on $70 million of outside spending, an 11-1 spending disadvantage by motivating people to be a part of their democracy. We look forward to continuing to build that movement, to get money out of politics, put money in your pocket, put Medicare for All into November, to defeat Mike Rogers - a historically corrupted congressional member in Michigan and wannabe senator.
MARTIN: So the tone of the primary campaign has been bitter at times. If you win, how do you repair that?
EL-SAYED: Well, I think we all understand the stakes here. Mike Rogers is an existential threat to any system that is about trying to fight for working people. We understand it was bitter. There was a lot of money spent in this race on a set of messages that weren't really consistent with the truth. But we also know that what unites us is way bigger than what divides us. We know that Trumpism has been just a colossal failure. We know that to defeat Trumpism, we're going to have to defeat Trump's hand-picked candidate for U.S. Senate, and we know that the responsibility we have to come - to make sure that we're protecting people's healthcare, that we're standing up for clean air, clean water, that we're fighting for affordability for working people - is way bigger than anything that divides us.
MARTIN: You know, you - I know that you're offended by some of the critiques of your campaign, some of the critiques that said that your messaging bordered on sexist at times. And I understand that there weren't that many distinct policy differences between you and the congresswoman. What do you say to voters who just say, I'm just sick of the tone, that some of the critiques are too much like President Trump, who calls people names, who especially directs barbs at women that strike them as sexist? How do you respond to that? It's just that they feel like the overall tone of politics right now is so unpleasant that they turn - it turns them off?
EL-SAYED: Well, when you come to the ground in Michigan, you talk to our supporters, they'll talk about a distinct joy, a distinct hope, a distinct opportunity to be a part of something big. You don't get 12,000 people to volunteer for a campaign because it's bitter or it's angry. You get that because they believe in something on the back end of what we can actually deliver. So I encourage people to be a part of what we're actually doing here, to come join our movement, to recognize why people have chosen to give of their time and their talent and their treasure to be a part of this. And I think you get a very, very different view on the ground.
Obviously, when you have $70 million spent against you, folks are going to create a narrative, but, you know, I think the real narratives are the ones that are held by the actual people doing the work on the ground here in Michigan to build an America that we believe in that we want to hand off to our kids and our grandkids.
MARTIN: OK. Well, actual results on the ground so far - you have strong results in Ann Arbor and Lansing. But in areas with more working-class voters and Detroit, where there are more Black voters, not doing as well so far. What's the plan there?
EL-SAYED: I think we got to continue to build, but, you know, the - that $70 million isn't spent for nothing. They do it because they can cover wall-to-wall ads to build a narrative around you. I'm looking forward to continuing to have the conversation that I started with Detroiters and Wayne County residents when I jumped into public service more than 10 years ago now to rebuild the health department, put glasses on kids' faces, take on corporate polluters, make sure that our kids weren't drinking leaded water in their schools after Flint and eliminate medical debt.
There is a longstanding relationship that I've built with this community, never mind the money that's been spent to try and shake that. So our job is to continue to have that conversation, talk about what we can build, especially in contrast to what Mike Rogers and Donald Trump want to destroy.
MARTIN: During the primary campaign, you said none of your fundraising came from corporate PACs. If you win your primary, will that continue to be the case in the general election?
EL-SAYED: None of my fundraising will come from corporate PACs.
MARTIN: Period. End of story.
EL-SAYED: End of story.
MARTIN: Even if you're behind?
EL-SAYED: Even if I'm behind.
MARTIN: OK. You've criticized Haley Stevens' support from the pro-Israel lobby AIPAC. You disagreed over whether to call Israel's war in Gaza a genocide. Do you think that Israel continues to be a defining issue in this race going forward?
EL-SAYED: You know, it's not about Israel. It's about the opportunity cost of our tax dollars that gets sent over there. I mean, if you think about it, we send - what? - $3.3 billion at baseline, 22 billion over the last several years to a country that has done a genocide and apartheid. And instead of that, I think it's probably better to use our money to provide good schools and healthcare for kids here. So regardless of what you think about there, I think our people have a right to our tax dollars, and we ought to spend that money here, to invest here.
And my position is pretty consistent across a number of different countries. I just don't pay my taxes so that another country gets a bomb or a tank, whether that's Israel or Egypt, where my family immigrated from. I want to keep our money here to provide healthcare in Michigan and schools in Michigan and infrastructure in Michigan.
MARTIN: This whole question of whether Democrats need to kind of lean more to their progressive wing or focus more on sort of the - what people are calling centrists, although again, as Tam Keith pointed out in her report, that that isn't necessarily - those neat sort of lines aren't necessarily as bright as many people might make them out to be. Still, the question becomes, you know, independents are often the place where these battles are fought in the general elections.
So I guess the question for you then would be, if that is the case in Michigan as well, what's your argument to independents, with people who have especially been ticket splitters? I mean, that has been the case in Michigan, that people voted for, you know, Obama twice, and then they also voted for President Trump. So what's the message there?
EL-SAYED: I think we often think that people walk around thinking that people are wondering if they live on a left-right spectrum. I think more often, people are more interested in asking, how can I afford my groceries and how can I pay my rent? And I think that's the responsibility that we have to answer. And so I think we appeal to independents in the same way that we've been appealing. We need candidates who aren't bought off by the corporations who are raising your prices. We need candidates who are actually going to fight the attempt of these corporations to buy our politics, and who are going to fight for policies that make your life more affordable, guarantee you healthcare, protect your air and water and stand for you.
MARTIN: If you win, what's your priority, you know, in - what's your priority, well, come January when you take your seat? What would be your number one priority?
EL-SAYED: Well, Michel, as you know, I'm a doctor. I want everybody in this country to have healthcare. But the way we do that is we've got to stand up to the way that Citizens United has corrupted our politics for far too long. And so I want everybody to have healthcare, and we've got to get money out of politics to do that.
MARTIN: That is Dr. Abdul El-Sayed. He is running for the Democratic nomination in Michigan's Senate race. Dr. Abdul El-Sayed, thank you so much for talking with us.
EL-SAYED: Thank you for having me.
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